E&OE 

GARY ADSHEAD: All of a sudden, we hear from the CSIRO that they will be losing 350 researchers and scientists in various capacities. We don’t know exactly where, we don’t know what the criteria is for the job losses, but we certainly know that they’re happening. And we’ve also heard the Prime Minister speaking about it earlier today as well. I’ll just remind you about what the Prime Minister said when he was being spoken to by a journalist today at a press conference while he was here with the cabinet on CSIRO. 

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GARY ADSHEAD: Now, amongst the agencies and the people that are concerned about this is Universities Australia. Luke Sheehy, the chief executive of Universities Australia, joins me on the line. Thanks for your time, Luke. 

LUKE SHEEHY: Good to be with you. 

GARY ADSHEAD: And I think you’re in Perth at the moment, aren’t you? 

LUKE SHEEHY: I am in Perth, enjoying this beautiful weather because it’s very cold for us normally down in the eastern part of the world. 

GARY ADSHEAD: Now, just on a couple of things from your point of view, are these cuts within the CSIRO warranted because it had become too overstaffed and resourced? 

LUKE SHEEHY: Look, universities are concerned about cuts to the CSIRO, we are concerned about structural underfunding for research activities in universities and we’re also concerned about the worrying lack of investment by our businesses and particularly big businesses in research and development in this country. So, the 350 job cuts to the CSIRO are just another worrying trend in the direction of where Australia’s heading when it comes to research and development. It’s not only worrying for the 350 workers who will go into Christmas more anxious, more worried, but they’ll also be going nowhere in terms of helping Australia to build that prosperous future that we need with investment in R&D to create new ideas, new products, new breakthroughs. We are very concerned about the cuts because Australia needs to lift its game in R&D across CSIRO, across universities and particularly in our business community. 

GARY ADSHEAD: Now, just in terms of what you said there going into Christmas with a lot of uncertainty, we don’t, well, I don’t know you might have more of an idea, if you’ve heard anything on the grapevine about which areas are going to be losing staff. We don’t even know state by state. Have you heard anything about that? 

LUKE SHEEHY: We haven’t heard the full details about where these cuts will fall, but for WA, we know that nearly 12 per cent of the CSIRO workforce is here in Western Australia. That’s nearly 700 workers who will be thinking is my job up? And that’s an important part of the workforce here in Western Australia. Many of those workers are co-located with our wonderful universities here in Western Australia. And that’s really worrying. It’s really worrying for individuals, it’s worrying for families. But the point universities are making is this is a worrying trend that we’re reducing our overall investment, particularly from the government, at a time we need to lift it. Why do we need to lift it, Gary? Because our competitor countries are turbocharging their efforts in research and development. Take countries like Singapore, Germany, South Korea, and I’ve just come from a university-led delegation in China, where their research and development as a percentage of GDP is somewhere in the ballpark of seven to eight per cent. In Australia, we’re lagging behind at 1.6 to 1.7 per cent. It’s nearly half of the OECD average. We’ve got a lot of work to do in boosting R&D, so we can catch up in this global competition for research and development and new ideas. 

GARY ADSHEAD: I note you didn’t mention the US then probably because you hadn’t been there, but no comparison. Surely, we’re not being compared to what they’re doing in the US in and around science, are we?  

LUKE SHEEHY: There are really worrying trends about what the Trump administration has been doing with investment in science and research. But let’s not forget, the private sector in the US has a formidable effort when it comes to research and development. And the overall effort in the US really eclipses Australia’s effort. We are risking being left behind in the global economy and the global race for research and development to ensure that we’ve got new businesses, new products, new ideas and importantly, new breakthroughs like medical breakthroughs that will help us become healthier and live better and stronger and healthier lives.  

GARY ADSHEAD: Luke, it is odd that the Prime Minister is arguing that they came into power, obviously a fair way after the Abbott Government had made those cuts to the CSIRO and then increased the budget. He’s talked about how they increased the budget, but then we suddenly find ourselves, only three years on, from when they were elected, with 350 this time. But we’re being told that there’s been something like over the last 18 months, 1,100 staff disappearing from there. 

LUKE SHEEHY: This is why we’re worried, Gary. This is going in absolutely the wrong direction. CSIRO is an iconic institution in Australia. It’s produced breakthroughs like Wi-Fi. It’s an incredible asset for the country, as our universities are as you’d expect me to say. The government has a bold ambition to lift Australia’s research and development as a percentage of GDP to three per cent. We’re at 1.6 to 1.7 per cent at the moment. It’s not getting us in the right direction. We want the government to deliver what it committed to in its policy platform at not the last election, but the election before that. It’s important they put their money where their aspirations are and invest in R&D. 

GARY ADSHEAD: I wonder if there is a concern about these 350 in this instance and where they then find work. I mean, do they go off to the private sector or is it not quite that simple? 

LUKE SHEEHY: I think the point that we’ve been making through the review of research, which is yet to table its final report to the government, and through our advocacy is that Australia risks a brain drain. Our best and brightest who are at our universities, at CSIRO and in industry, particularly here in Western Australia, with a fantastic R&D happening, particularly in the resources industry, we risk sending a signal to them saying, not enough money, not enough investment in Australia, go overseas. Look what they’re doing in our region in Singapore, in Europe with Horizon Europe, billions of euros of funding for research and development across their member states, even in North America. We need to get real about securing our future and supporting research and development, which is going to support our future economy and our future way of life. I think it’s important that the government puts those investments into helping boost and deliver on its own aspirations for three per cent of research and development across our economy. 

GARY ADSHEAD: Alright, well certainly the PM’s in the firing line in relation to the questions he’s getting at the moment and probably pressure is from behind the scenes as well. We’ll see whether or not things get reversed in relation to that 350 people. As you said, somewhere inside the CSIRO they are wondering whether they’ll have a job by Christmas. Thank you very much for joining us, Luke. 

LUKE SHEEHY: Thanks for having me. 

ENDS