E&OE
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: Universities Australia has said that the announced restructure and workforce reduction at Australia’s national science agency, the CSIRO, underscores a very real risk of chronic underfunding in the nation’s research system. To talk about this some more is the CEO of Universities Australia, Luke Sheehy. Good afternoon, Luke.
LUKE SHEEHY: Good afternoon.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: This latest announcement of 350 job losses is on top of earlier announcements, taking the number of job losses at the CSIRO to over 1,000. This is not really the direction we need to be heading in for research and development in Australia.
LUKE SHEEHY: It absolutely isn’t. And universities alongside CSIRO and industry deliver research and development for the future of Australia. But frankly, these cuts are a worrying sign at a time when Australia is falling further and further behind. Currently, our research and development spend as a percentage of GDP is only around 1.6 to 1.7 per cent. That is almost half the OECD average and way behind our competitor countries in our region and in Europe and North America. Frankly, we need to see more investment in CSIRO, more investment in research in our businesses and, of course, universities have a role to play as well. We’re really concerned about these job cuts. We’re heading in the wrong direction and that’s not good for the country.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: Why is the CSIRO being so chronically underfunded?
LUKE SHEEHY: CSIRO does get its funding from the Commonwealth government, and while the government will point to increases in funding, it’s not keeping up with costs and it’s not keeping up with the government’s own aspiration.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: That’s right. Yeah.
LUKE SHEEHY: The government wants to lift research and development investment to three per cent of GDP. That’s going to require a monumental effort of investment from universities, but from businesses and of course from government. We’ve got to see them investing in their own aspiration. And if we are cutting CSIRO jobs, we’re not investing, we are going the wrong way.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: Australia was for a while, I’m not sure we still are, known as the clever country. We’ve always been at the forefront of innovation and research and development. We’ve invented so many things in Australia. Are we at risk of losing our best scientists to overseas organizations or into the private sector?
LUKE SHEEHY: Without a doubt, and I think we’re not just at risk of losing people from CSIRO, which is obvious with the job cuts, but we are at risk of losing talented people from our universities, from our businesses going elsewhere. There is more research and development as a percentage of investment in other countries and Australia will be left behind and we’ll lose our best and brightest who’ll seek those opportunities elsewhere. I don’t think anyone would think that that’s a good idea. We want to see Australia produce clever ideas that then benefit not only our businesses and our economy, but breakthroughs that support us in our health and the way that we live. If we are not investing in science and research, then we’re on a recipe or on a journey to the wrong place.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: I was watching Senator David Pocock’s response to the announcements of further job cuts at CSIRO on his Facebook page. He’s obviously pretty fired up about it, but what would you like to see changed? What sort of action would you like to see changed or brought in?
LUKE SHEEHY: The government is undertaking a review of research and development across Australia at the moment. They get to finalise their report on that. That’s headed up by Robyn Denholm, who’s from Tesla and an eminent Australian. We are really looking forward to seeing what those recommendations are. But we know before we started that the government spends across 150 different programs into research and development. It’s fragmented, it’s not well organised. So, before we even spend any more money, we can actually spend the money we do spend at the moment a lot better. That’s the first thing. We know and so does the interim report from that review, that we’ve got to invest billions and billions more just to keep up. It’s not just about government funding, it’s also about businesses. The heavy lifting has to happen in the university sector and our business community. We know right across the Australian economy, we do excellent things. We are incredibly productive when it comes to agriculture and becoming a food bowl for not only Australia but for the region. There’s more we can do in this space, of course, with technology and AI, but there’s a whole range of other things that we need to do because if we are going to create our own future, a clean and green future with new energy sources and driving new opportunities for new jobs, you can’t do it without putting in research and development investment and we are just falling behind. That’s what makes these job cuts all the more worrying.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: It does seem at odds with the policy of net zero by 2050 as well, removing so much potential from Australian shores or losing them. Definitely not just, I mean indefinitely, it’s horrible to see such a vacuum that it might create. Is there an area though of research? I mean, you did say it’s very fragmented, it’s across 150 programs. Is there an area or areas that you think we really should be focusing on in Australia?
LUKE SHEEHY: Obviously, and the government has made this point as well, and the universities are here to support this ambition. We want a Future Made in Australia. We want to make sure that we become the clean energy superpower of our region. We have all of the resources and all of the attributes in this great continent of ours to succeed and to continue to have the wealth and prosperity that we all share and that can be achieved into the next generation. If we are turbo-powering those new industries, particularly clean energy, critical minerals, that we know will play a role in the technology of the future, it’s important that we put the R&D investment into that and that’s why the government has these programs like a Future Made in Australia. But my message is pretty clear: you can’t have a Future Made in Australia, you can’t have a healthy Australia and you certainly can’t have this clean energy transformation if you don’t put the money into the research and development that underpins the strategic move from one part to another. We’re going to miss out. This is why we’re so concerned about job losses in CSIRO. 350 people are going into Christmas more anxious than they need to be, and our country is worse off for it. I want to see the government start to invest in our R&D capacity and work with us and the business community to really achieve those big aspirations that they’ve already set their minds to.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: Luke, do you get much chance to chat to politicians? I mean, you must have certain situations where you can advocate and put your ideas firmly across. I’m sure you probably even chatted to Senator David Pocock, I’m not sure, but do you think the message is getting through to the government because it really just does seem very, to cliche the term, very unAustralian to be heading down this direction?
LUKE SHEEHY: I think there are priorities that the government has and sometimes we have to make our case, we have to make our case pretty convincingly, right? And in the university space, that’s always a big challenge. I spend a lot of time with politicians. I’m in Perth today and I’ve been meeting with crossbench federal politician Kate Chaney, and I’ve also met state politicians. We have to make the case at universities for investment, but we need a lot of allies. I think the business community needs to step up. Research and development benefit all parts of the economy. It’s not just about putting more university students into laboratories, although that’s an important part of it, it’s also about turbocharging out more to medium enterprises, giving them new ideas, testing products, getting them into the global supply chain. Australia has, as you rightly pointed out, a fantastic track record of discovery and innovation. Wi-Fi, the black box, penicillin, cochlear implants, you name it. They came because dedicated people worked for hours and hours in laboratories, in different parts of research labs to work out what was going on in the world and the universe and making those breakthroughs and discoveries. If we’re not putting more money into that, we’re not sending the right signal for the next generation to become our researchers. The other thing we really want the government to do is support our PhD students. The best and brightest are those doing PhDs, and at the moment, they’re only getting about $33,000 to live and raise a family on while they’re doing that PhD full time. That is just on or above the poverty line. A practical step we could take as well is to give PhD students more practical support by raising that stipend so they’re not living on the poverty line. No Australian would expect the best and brightest in Australia to be living hand to mouth each week.
DAMIAN DE MONTEMAS: No, that’s right. It’s certainly a stark difference to places like China and many other countries around the world that are investing billions and up to eight per cent of their GDP into research and development. We used to be at the forefront of it in Australia, and it seems that we should be again, but currently it looks like we’re falling sadly very, very far behind. Luke, thanks for your thoughts today, mate. Thanks very much for your time.
LUKE SHEEHY: Great to be with you, and thanks so much for your time.
ENDS
