E&OE 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Stop treating universities as political footballs, that will be the key message at the National Press Club today as the Chair of Universities Australia presents his case against capping international student numbers. Professor David Lloyd will today argue that “elected officials are using international students as scapegoats to blame the housing crisis on” and that caps would weaken the Australian economy. Professor David Lloyd is the Chair of Universities Australia and joins us this morning. Welcome. 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: Morning, Patricia. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: In your speech to the Press Club, you will outline why higher education should be front and centre in the next federal election. We have got a cost-of-living crisis, a housing crisis, there are global conflicts that the next government will have to deal with. Why should tertiary education be an election issue? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think education should be front of mind for every Australian because not only does it deliver the outcomes which drive civil society and cohesion in society, which goes to these bigger global issues, but it is also the mechanism by which Australia will prosper in the future and deliver skilled graduates, deliver a workforce that can actually catalyse transformation in our society. As the previous segment talked about innovation in restaurants, all of that stems from having educated people, skilled people, and that’s why universities matter. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, you want to be left out of politics but yet be in the political debate. How is that going to work? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think it’s the difference between politics and policy. I think at the moment what’s playing out is a piece of politics about migration or about a housing crisis, and the reality is we need policies which are there to sustain and to grow and to deliver on the promise of higher education for all Australians. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Now, you have criticised the government for capping international student numbers. Yesterday, it was revealed that the Australian National University will have its international student allocation reduced by more than 14 per cent. What impact will that have?  

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I mean, from the ANU’s perspective, that’s going to be a significant impost on their delivery of services, not only just for Australian students but for international students, the research that they conduct, and the same pattern plays out across the sector. This is really not an issue of railing against the notion of controlling migration, if that is what the agenda may well be, it’s one around the idea that we are limiting the ambition of Australia through wilfully cutting back on our ability to deliver core services, core infrastructure, core teaching for students of all of labours, be they domestic or international. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: One of the arguments for capping international student numbers is that it’s really an unregulated way of having lots of people come into the country and that Australians expect to know what the numbers are. Do you accept that having a number, you might not like this number, but a number is reasonable that it’s not completely a free for all. 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think that it’s completely within the government’s remit and it’s understandable that the government would want to control migration and the Australian population would have that expectation. Open slather, open borders, all comers, that’s never going to work for any society anywhere in the world. I think the fact that it’s been placed in the spotlight that international students are somehow driving this challenge for political reasons, which is a migration question, not an education question, is a furphy. I think the notion that Australian students, sorry, international students as they come to Australia, we know from all of our records that students come to Australia, they acquire an education, and 86 per cent of those international students go back to their home countries. They take the soft power of diplomacy back with them and they have left us a richer country, not just in terms of economics, but in the way in which our society has been enriched by their presence. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: So, do you accept that the international students affect about or put about four per cent demand on the rental market? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I do. In fact, it’s one of the key points I’m making today. International students are driving around four per cent of the private rental market in Australia… 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: But given the vacancy rate is so low, doesn’t that mean there is an impact? It might be your argument that it’s small is perhaps defendable, but it is having an impact, isn’t it? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think it’s having a measurable impact. It’s having four per cent impact. I think the important piece, Patricia, is that 96 per cent of the challenge of housing in Australia has nothing to do with international students. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Okay, but when we are seeing such low vacancy rates in the rental market, that four per cent can have an impact, can’t it? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: It’s four per cent. I think the important piece when we look at our own assessment of vacancy rates in areas where there are international students, they are higher than the averages in our capital cities. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And the other point is in relation to what the government is requiring of the universities. It wants universities to build accommodation to deal with international students. Is that reasonable? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: There is at the moment, I can talk from a South Australian perspective on this one. There is a 10 per cent vacancy rate in South Australia in accommodation for international students. Certainly, the government can require or request that universities would build more accommodation to accommodate more students, but we are not seeing a shortage of international student accommodation across the nation and the means by which this will be delivered, which would be a great infrastructure initiative, universities take the revenue they derive from international students and reinvest it in programs such as infrastructure. Many institutions have already built the infrastructure which are in place that accommodate their institution’s students. The notion that you can just deliver accommodation overnight to drive growth in international student numbers, again, is pure fantasy. The lead time to deliver this is going to take a long time. There are other mechanisms and other levers that can be put in place to ensure that students are accommodated in share homes in the way in which they get delivered across a broader spectrum society. And we know that the private market, which is looking at the delivery of these infrastructures which supports Australians in jobs to deliver the infrastructure, are saying a cap is going to deter participation and deter the ability to deliver those infrastructures for the wider economy. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: If you are just tuning in, you’re listening to Radio National Breakfast. I am speaking with Professor David Lloyd, Chair of Universities Australia, who will be speaking at the National Press Club today. Look, Professor David Lloyd, is part of the problem that this is really a bipartisan position. It might be certainly different levels, but you have got both major parties who want to impose these caps on universities. 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think the problem, Patricia, is that the origin of the stimulation is the throwaway concept that international students are driving a migration issue in Australia and there is no evidence to support that assertion at all. I think that then it becomes one of politics as people are seen to be harder on the issue than the other because that is the way the political game plays out. And as you referenced in the opening, it positions universities and international students and those who are dependent on the activities of universities, including the wider economy of Australia, as the football in that political game. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: In your speech today, you will call for universities, as we have said, to stop being used as political pawns. So, what do you make of former Labor leader Bill Shorten becoming Vice Chancellor of Canberra University? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I congratulate Bill on his appointment. I know that it was run through a global competition, that there was an open competition, and Bill has made a choice to change careers. I think he will find a rewarding career being able to engage in an industry which is so important and central to not only just Canberra but the nation in his position as the Vice Chancellor of the University of Canberra. I think he can make a difference, so I do welcome that. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: And do you hope he will start opposing international student caps as of February? 

PROFESSOR DAVID LLOYD: I think that Bill will, when he takes up his position, we will have to look at the way these caps will impact his institution and I have no doubt that he will probably join with me in making a clear statement that in doing this, we are taking a step to limit the ambition of Australia. 

PATRICIA KARVELAS: Thank you so much, Professor David Lloyd is the Chair of Universities Australia and Vice Chancellor and President, University of South Australia. 

ENDS