E&OE
Manu:
Thanks once again for joining us on PIEChat this afternoon. First of all, please accept our congratulations for a wonderful conference this year. And just wanted to start off by asking you, how do you think the conference went and do you reckon it was able to achieve the goals set out for it for this year?
Catriona Jackson:
We were very pleased with the outcomes from the conference this year. You’d want to get it from delegates, other than just from me. But the feedback that I had was very positive. The aim was to achieve a reset for both the sector, but also aim more broadly. So, we were very pleased with the attendance figures for a start. We had getting close to pre-COVID levels, and so many of the delegates face-to-face. We know things are still quite challenging in terms of travel. So, it was a real sign of a desire to get back together that people came from all over the country, and in fact all over the world, to be there.
Manu:
And what in your opinion were the highlights of the conference, and do you reckon that most of the policy agendas that were significant in your assessment prior to the conference got adequate attention and were adequately discussed?
Catriona Jackson:
One of the aims of conference is to make sure there’s someone for everyone. So, there will have been different highlights for different sorts of delegates. But certainly, the highlight for me was hearing from our new minister and hearing a very nice laying out of his agenda and his priorities, and seeing so much alignment between the agenda and priorities of the sector with the minister. We are looking very much to working hand in hand as we come up to a number of really landmark things for the incoming government, the jobs and skills summit. Also looking forward very much to setting up a university accord in partnership with government and seeing what sort of shape that might take. So, the conversations with government, between sector and government, I think were a real highlight for us and for the whole sector.
Manu:
Now coming more to what the sector is faced with and the challenges that it is facing post-pandemic. How do you think the effect of recovery is going thus far after the pandemic, and what do you think needs to be done better?
Catriona Jackson:
Look, let’s not pretend the last two and a half years haven’t been really rough for people all over the world and all over Australia. But because universities are part of the communities that we serve, we have a significant job of work still to do, but it is absolutely fair to say there is considerable renewed optimism as we see students coming back onto campus. And isn’t it lovely seeing students back on campus? Just all the things that should be happening in a university context are starting to come back. Students having conversations in corridors, in labs, and back in tutorials. All of those things are terrific, but there is considerable work still to be done. I mean, we know that COVID is certainly not over, and challenges in that regard remain. Students and staff in some cases are still having to study remotely because of illness.
So, there are still considerable challenges for us to overcome, but there is renewed optimism about our ability to do that. As I look back over the last two and a half years, the one thing that really sticks in my mind is how resolute and hardworking and relentlessly committed all of the university staff and university students were, and their determination to get on with their work in all sorts of different and varied conditions. Some of them studying online for the very first time, many of them teaching online for the very first time. People just got on with the job. It’s an extraordinary thing to say.
Manu:
Fantastic. In continuing the conversation on rebound, given that the sector in Australia is trying so very hard to bounce back and present an attractive proposition to prospective students. Do you reckon the visa delays are hampering this effort and also sort of hampering the country’s ability to be able to get skilled workers in and address some of those acute skill shortages? And on this, what do you think can actually be done, and are systemic changes required for a total overhaul of the system?
Catriona Jackson:
Look, certainly delays in visa processing are not welcome for universities or for the broader economy. I am very pleased to say that in the quite serious conversations we’ve had with government, we’ve seen considerable response. I think it’s fair to say the Commonwealth Government understands absolutely that delays in visa processing are the last thing we need right now. The Education Minister has asked his Department Secretary to work directly with the Department Secretary in Home Affairs, and that is happening as we speak. Considerable additional resources have been added to the Department of Home Affairs so that processing can just get up and running faster and more quickly and more efficiently. I think there’s considerable work and I think we’ll see change and an uplift in that area.
Soon we will continue to prosecute the case with government that we need to make sure that visa processing is done absolutely as a matter of priority, and we’re getting students in who have been waiting so patiently over the last two years to be able to get back into Australia here in time for the start of their courses at whatever semester it is they choose to begin.
Manu:
What do you reckon needs to be done to bolster the funding for university research? I think that’s another area which really came up for discussion during the conference on a number of occasions. And for university research, there has been considerable revenue loss because of the fact that it was being cross funded by international student fees. And since the numbers plummeted in the last two years, so did the funding for university research. What do you think can be done as a national policy to fund the university research through the country’s resources and reduce the reliance on international student revenue?
Catriona Jackson:
Look, it’s certainly true that the COVID-19 pandemic laid bare the fragility of our research funding. Universities knew that they were making an increasing contribution to the nation’s research effort while contributions from both government and industry were going in the other direction. However, now that COVID-19 has made this all absolutely clear, and the fragility of that system was made clear to the public and parliamentarians as well, I think there’s a really shared understanding between us and government that we need to do something about this. This is a medium to long-term discussion. We will certainly continue to pursue it with the government and I think we see some considerable amounts of willingness. It’s not something that will be fixed tomorrow Manu, I don’t want to be naive about it. But it’s certainly a medium to long-term discussion that we pursue with government and will continue pursuing as we try and make sure the policy settings are just more long-term, more sustainable and just more solid to ensure that we can retain the position we have in the world in terms of research.
Don’t forget that Australia is a really, really strong research nation, despite the fact that we have a very small population. I mean, you’ll know the figures as well as I do. We have 0.3 per cent of the world’s population, just 0.3 per cent. And we produce more than a very large amount. More than 4 per cent in terms of the world’s research output. This means we are punching considerably above our weight. It is absolutely essential that we stay there or get better. Research is not a world in which things stay still. There are lots of competing countries, lots of competing research outfits that are really excellent. And if we don’t keep up, we’ll start falling behind.
Manu:
My next question also relates to research and to PhD research. The government has made a recent announcement that they are wanting to cut the red tape in the process of approvals of changes to PhD research in critical areas. Do you think this step and steps of this kind, which are more systemic in nature, would help enhance the productivity of the working of different ministerial departments as well as universities?
Catriona Jackson:
Certainly in relation to that particular piece of guideline change, which was made just before the election, we very much welcomed the statement from the new Minister for Home Affairs, Claire O’Neil, that those changes would be significantly narrowed and that she would be consulting carefully with the sector around how we make sure that we have the appropriate balance between the essential openness of research and national security. So that was an important change made by the incoming minister and we very much welcome it. And as we do in all the work that we do on behalf of the sector, we understand that balance between national security and between the fundamental openness of research is a precious one and a very important one to maintain. We’ll be looking forward to those conversations with the Home Affairs Minister as she continues to pursue the appropriate balance in relation to that set of rules.
Manu:
I would like to zoom out now and ask you a question on the more macro-picture. How can Australia regain its competitive edge, which seems to have been lost during the two years of the pandemic in comparison to its competitor countries, such as the UK, US, Canada? And if I may add, even Germany?
Catriona Jackson:
Look, I think it’s very important that we look really clearly at exactly where we sit. You are right, some of our competitor countries have done very well. The international education market is a very competitive one. Nations look jealously at how well Australia has done, and everyone would like to have the brightest and best students around the world on their university campuses. Certainly, we have some ground to make up. We are still down about 25 per cent on pre-COVID levels in terms of commencing students. That is a figure we absolutely must make smaller and make it smaller quickly. And some of the things we’ve already discussed, like making sure those visa processing delays are eliminated, they’re very important factors there. But at the same time, all the things that attract international students to Australia in the first place, remain exactly as they were before COVID-19.
We are a very attractive place to study for a number of reasons. We have a world class university system – that’s probably the most important one. At the same time, we’re also an extremely nice place to be. Australia is a safe country, and Australia is right in the middle of the region we serve. So, we draw students from 144 countries around the world, but the vast majority of our students come from the region in which we live. So, that means that students aren’t having to go right across the other side of the world, they’re studying in their region, so they can become global citizens of their region. About 16 per cent of those students stay here after their studies. And there’s increasing conversation around how we can attract some more of those absolutely top students to stay in Australia for a bit longer, or make Australia their home. They’re all-important things in regaining, as you say, the edge. I don’t think it’s regaining the edge – I think it’s just moving very quickly to return ourselves to a very competitive position we were in pre-COVID.
Manu:
And do you think that this very valid observation you made about drawing students in from the Indo-Pacific region? Do you reckon that having Australian universities growing their student base from India and the Southeast Asian market and China is also going bolster the Indo-Pacific security vision of the country?
Catriona Jackson:
One of the ways in the last many decades that we’ve strengthened our role and position in our region is by having that fantastic cross-fertilisation across national boundaries with students when they come here to study, when we send our students through things like the New Colombo Plan out into the region. One of the things that makes us strong in our region, that boosts mutual understanding of different cultures, different political systems, different social systems – has been the terrific movement of international students around the region in which we exist.
So increased recognition of the importance of that in soft diplomacy as well, but also in just us understanding the region in which we live, the extraordinary multicultural, strong multicultural nation that we are, and the position and role we have in the region, can only be enhanced by students from all around the region coming and studying here. Then, either staying here as citizens, making us more multicultural and stronger for it, or going home with a really terrific understanding of what Australia is like, the sort of nation that we are.
I think that the international students project, if you like, is one which has played an enormous role in the national development of this country and the national development of understanding of the sort of role we can play – the sort of partnership and collaboration we can have with all of our neighbors.
Manu:
Wonderful. Now coming back to the conference, if I may, to conclude our conversation this afternoon, what steps would Universities Australia be taking to drive policy change on the key things discussed in the conference, particularly in relation to Professor Dewar’s and the minister’s presentations?
Catriona Jackson:
Our job is to advocate to government for the best possible policy settings, regulatory settings, and funding settings for the sectors. So, the immediate term priorities for us are to pursue those goals outlined by our Chair John Dewar, and in many cases reflected by the minister, and to respond to the challenges thrown out to us by the minister. So, if we want to go down a list in order of priority, number one is making sure we have enough places for the demographic increase – the increase in numbers of young Australians coming down the pipe in 2024 and 2025. It’s really important that we do that. Those students deserve exactly the same chances as their brothers and sisters had before them. And because there is a demographic bump coming, we need to make sure there are adequate places for those students.
A very important connected matter there is making sure that we are able to offer the excellence of an Australian university education to every student in Australia, who wants one and qualifies for one, regardless of where they come from. This is a very strong theme in the new minister’s speech and universities have long been committed to making sure that we have really, genuinely, equal opportunity in access. So, making sure that Indigenous Australians, that students from an economically poorer backgrounds, that students who are women, students from different abled backgrounds, and students from regional areas have the same sort of access to education as others do.
But also, once they are in university, that we have measures to make sure that we can assist them through university, to help them complete their degree. So that they don’t just get in, but they get the results, the satisfaction of completing their degree, and the sorts of benefits for them and their communities and to the national economy, once they’re out in the big wide world with their qualification.
So, making sure we have enough places, making sure we have places for everyone who needs one, that’s really important. Pursuing how it is we fund research in a more sustainable fashion is another really big one. Reducing regulation duplication, that’s also a matter which we are having serious conversations with government about. Making sure that we aren’t over-regulating the sector, in a sort of overlapping fashion, in a way which just increases workload on bureaucracies, increases workload on universities, in a way that isn’t particularly productive. That’s also another major emphasis. And making sure that we get the most out of our research once it’s completed. Making sure that we have all the sorts of settings in place to ensure that research translation, research commercialisation, can happen in a fruitful way.
And I think probably the final one – outlined again by UA Chair Professor John Dewar and also by the incoming Minister for Education Jason Clare – is pursuing the sorts of settings, which means that students at all stages of their life can get both a first degree, if they want a first degree, but then they can dip back in and out of education – be it university education or vocational education. Done in smaller bites, shorter courses or microcredentials as they’re sometimes described – in ways which means they can skill themselves up all the way through their life so that they can be absolutely fit for purpose for the really changing job market that we face.
So, making sure that universities are absolutely able to make all those sorts of offerings and that there’s good connections – and there are – but boosting those good connections between vocational education and university education.
Manu:
Is Universities Australia planning to provide policy advice through different formats within this year to the government?
Catriona Jackson:
Oh, of course, Manu. We’ve provided advice both in the lead up to the election, and advice in detail post the election. We’ll be taking a vigorous part in the jobs and skills summit, which is coming up, as we understand on 1-2 September. We’ll also be beginning earnest conversations with governments about the university accord that the minister reaffirmed his commitment to during his speech the other day.
Manu:
On that note, Catriona Jackson, thank you so very much for taking time out this afternoon for PIEChat.
ENDS
