E&OE

Thomas Oriti:
Just to get my head around the current situation, how many government subsidised places are there currently for domestic students at Australian universities?

Catriona Jackson:
Look, if you’re just talking in terms of actual students… as in headcount… there’s close to 900,000. So, quite a big number.

Thomas Oriti:
Okay. What does it need to be?

Catriona Jackson:
There are two factors here, Thomas. As you point out, there’s a substantial demographic bulge coming on. I mean, who would’ve thought that when Peter Costello said “have one for me and one for country”, people would actually follow suit? It turns out that I had my kids, then. So, if you feel like there are more 18-year-olds around, it’s not that you’re fantasising. There actually are more 18-year-olds around. And there will be 55,000 more of those over this decade, with the big bump coming in ’24-’25. So, 2024-25 is not very far away. It’s really important those kids have the same access to university places that their brothers and sisters did before them. The other big factor here is we know the world has changed, and we need more, rather than less, just for workforce needs. The Skills Commission tells us there will be 600,000 jobs that require a university degree, or higher, in the next five years. We’ve got to really get our act together to make sure we’re offering places to students, so we can fulfill those workforce needs, but also equity for those students who are 18. And there are more of them.

Thomas Oriti:
Yeah. Because some people might be listening going, “Well, hang on a minute, there’s more teenagers after those remarks 20 years ago … they don’t all necessarily all go to uni though.” But I know the Bureau of Statistics estimates that about half of all school leavers now go to university. So what is the current state of play? Is the system equipped to facilitate this with that predicted boom in demand?

Catriona Jackson:
We welcome both the commitments from the government and the opposition in relation to places… 30,000 from the government 20,000 from Labor… and additional investments, otherwise. But we think we need to sit down and look very carefully at whether that provision is enough. I mean, as I said before, both in equity terms for those additional students. Of course, all 55,000 of those additional 18-year-olds, won’t go to university, but a decent slice of them will. We have to make sure they get a fair go like their brothers and sisters did. But also, we need to make sure we’re offering positions to young and middle-aged and older Australians, because lots of middle-aged and older Australians are going to universities now and it’s really important that they can. Because you don’t just have one job for life, now. You might have five, 10, 15 different jobs … so you need to be able to go back and dip in and out of university as you age.

Thomas Oriti:
And I know you’ve commissioned some modelling into how valuable research and development is to the Australian economy, but a minute ago you questioned … “Is it enough? We welcome those commitments, but is it enough?” So, what do you want to see, in terms of an increase in investment in the tertiary sector?

Catriona Jackson:
Well look, it’s pretty simple maths. Deloitte modelling that we commissioned tells us that a 1 per cent increase in how much we all put in… so we’re not just saying government, but government, universities, and industry. If we just increase the contribution from those three groups, we’ll reap $2.5 billion additional for the Australian bottom line every single year, $24 billion over a decade. You increase the investment in universities, research and development, and you get really good rewards for every single Australian.

Thomas Oriti:
Are you hoping for one per cent increase? You’re optimistic though, as the election campaign goes on, in terms of what you’re hearing and your dialogue from the major parties?

Catriona Jackson:
Look, there have been some decent announcements thus far. We want to sit down with both parties and have a really serious conversation about how it is we fund Australian universities. Because COVID-19 has laid bare that our funding model is not as stable as it should be. So, we really need to think about how it is we fund research, but also how it is we make sure we’re making the absolute most out of the productivity machine that universities are. There are two ways universities contribute to productivity. They produce those incredibly high skilled graduates who just have all the ideas that create new jobs. They don’t just fill old ones, they create new industries, new jobs. I know it sounds cliche, but they really are creating the future.

Catriona Jackson:
We’ve got to make sure enough of those have the ability to go to university and determine their own future, and be the most productive individuals they can. But also, research is so fundamental. All through COVID-19, we’ve seen how important being a really flourishing research nation is. Not just in relation to the development of vaccines, but all that underpins that. So, these are two things which are really important to the future of the country. And a little bit more money from government and universities and industry, and we’ll just be stood in much better stead.

Thomas Oriti:
Obviously we’re talking at a critical time for you. The election is just around the corner. But I just want to ask … just stepping away from politics for a minute, really. It has been tough times for tertiary education, due to the pandemic over the last couple of years. I’ve spoken to you on the program about it before. What’s the current situation? How are unis actually coping with COVID-19 related staff shortages at the moment?

Catriona Jackson:
I’m not pretending it isn’t rough for universities all around the country. Certainly, there’s been a substantial sort of morale lift as we’ve gone back into this year. Things are just cleaner and clearer this year. But you look up in Queensland and New South Wales, and universities, like lots of other big institutions inside communities, have had to close because of floods. So, the minute you’re open, then you’re closed again, and there’s genuine trauma. You will have noticed some of our universities have become incredible community hubs, housing half of business in a town.

Catriona Jackson:
Away from politics, yeah, but there’s one university up in Queensland that’s had a number of parliamentarians move their office onto university campus, because it was on higher ground. So, universities continue to play a really fundamental part in communities. They’re under pressure. They’re under considerable pressure. There were 17,300 individual job losses through COVID-19, and that will take a while to recover from. Part of this investment will go some way to making sure we can recover, in the best possible way, so we can keep on playing our part in making sure Australia is progressive, modern, front-footed, and prosperous.

Thomas Oriti:
Catriona Jackson, thank you very much for joining us.