Recording date: Tuesday, 9 August 2022

E&OE

Stephen Cenatiempo

Universities have put forward a range of proposals to tackle the national teacher shortage ahead of a meeting of education ministers in Canberra later this week. We know that there is an acute teacher shortage. Declining numbers of people are training as teachers and an increase in those leaving the profession early is also exacerbating this. Catriona Jackson is CEO of Universities Australia and joins us now. Catriona, good morning.

Catriona Jackson

G’day, Stephen.

Stephen Cenatiempo

I want to touch on this, because I’ve heard people say that there isn’t actually a teacher shortage. There are enough people coming out of university with teaching degrees, but there seems to be some sort of problem getting them into the system. What is actually happening?

Catriona Jackson

Look, we graduate 16,000 teachers a year, and that sounds a lot, but it’s a really big system. Think about how many schools there are. The Federal Department of Education tells us about 4,000 more are needed over the next little while. I believe those numbers. Anyone who has kids in school knows that the current circumstances are making the situation difficult.

Stephen Cenatiempo

When you say 16,000 a year coming out now, and you need an extra 4,000, we need 20,000 a year or is that 4,000 over a number of years?

Catriona Jackson

No, that’s 4,000 over a period of time.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Right. Okay.

Catriona Jackson

It’s absolutely certainly not every year. If it was every year, that would be a really, really serious situation.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yeah. Okay. So, what do we need to do here? Because you’ve come up with a proposal to tackle this problem. Well, let’s start at the beginning. I guess, what’s the fundamental? Is there one big fix item that needs to be addressed first?

Catriona Jackson

Look, Stephen, if there was one great big golden bullet we would have sorted this out already. The reason we put these to the Australian Council of Education Deans and to education ministers for the end of this week is it’s important that we work together with all the players to get some solutions really quickly. Universities, who supply all the teachers, educate and train them, need to work with schools, the professional accreditation bodies and unions to make sure we get some solutions.

We put seven practical things on the table for consideration, and there are some ways we can get teachers into practical situations and schools quicker, training more vigorously and being able to teach quicker. There are ways we can attract the more mature-aged people who are very keen to teach and perhaps had another profession and give them some sort of learn-as-you-earn options. There are a range of things we can do here to try and make it better, but universities can’t do it alone. We’ve got to do it with government, schools and unions.

Stephen Cenatiempo

One of the problems I see is that there is a, I guess stigma’s probably a too harsh word, but there is a negative view of the teaching profession at the moment because of the poor outcomes we’re getting at an education level. Do we need to address that? What are the problems that are leading to the outcomes, and is that something that can be addressed at the university level?

Catriona Jackson

We need to think hard about how we talk about teachers and how we respect them as a profession. If you think back to your school life, Stephen, certainly, I think back to mine, some of those teachers who taught me were the most incredible people I’ve ever experienced in my life.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Absolutely.

Catriona Jackson

They made an enormous difference to how I function as a person. The public narrative is not always as good as it should be around teachers. It’s a really noble profession with people who have an enormous amount of influence on our kids’ lives, so I think a whole bunch more respect for those people from all of us, and as we discuss how they do their jobs as well. Teachers and nurses and doctors over the last couple of years, I cannot think of a group of Australians who’ve had a rougher time. We need to be applauding them, not just in the middle of COVID when all those nice ads and songs were around, but now, when they’re still doing it really tough. Some of them still have to teach virtually sometimes in the classroom, and other times, are dealing with kids who’ve been locked away during COVID as well. It’s a really rough job. More respect from all of us is needed.

Stephen Cenatiempo

There’s no doubt about that, that there needs to be greater respect for teachers, but it still comes back to the outcomes. I imagine that, well, in my view, a lot of the negative, I guess, sentiment towards teachers is purely based on the education outcomes that are being achieved in Australia. Surely that’s got to be the fundamental base from where we address all of this.

Catriona Jackson

Look, I’ll leave exactly how teachers teach and what they teach to the experts. I think it’s really important that we respect expertise in that space, but at the same time, I think more respect for teachers just cannot lead to worse outcomes. It’s bound to lead to better outcomes. If they are more respected in the community, they are more respected by kids. I think that will lead to better outcomes. But that expert commentary around how they teach and what they teach, that is a matter that I’m not qualified on.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Oh, absolutely.

Catriona Jackson

But I think more respect is always good.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Yep. Okay. So, these seven points that you are putting forward, this will go to this conference later this week. What happens then?

Catriona Jackson

It’s up to the education ministers. It’s a terrific thing that Jason Clare, the new Federal Education Minister, has convened a meeting of all the state and territory ministers, because school arrangements stretch across the Commonwealth and states, predominantly within the state, so he can’t do it alone. It is great to see that gathering. I am really keen to see these proposals considered. The government has also put out an issues paper with some very constructive suggestions. It is time for everyone to pull together, put everyone’s brain power and creativity and cooperation together so we can make sure there are enough teachers, good teachers, well-educated teachers to give our kids the best chance in life.

Stephen Cenatiempo

Well said. Catriona, appreciate your time.

Catriona Jackson

Pleasure.